CNN anchor Anderson Cooper lectured Green Party presidential candidate Cornel West over America’s role in the Ukraine war after West argued that America was acting like an empire on the world stage.
"I just spoke to the foreign minister of Ukraine," Cooper told West on Monday.
"I think if you said to him you’re standing with the people of Ukraine in solidarity, and you’re saying that they are just victims in this proxy war, he would say you’re out of your mind," he said, responding to West’s claims that Ukraine war was at least partially fueled by American aggression in Europe.
Cooper was responding to West's claim during the interview that the Ukraine conflict was a "proxy war" between the U.S. and Russia.
But the Ukrainians themselves, Cooper told West, "are thankful for NATO, they are thankful for the US. You can call it the American empire, but they are thankful for all these countries rallying to their side."
West, a professor emeritus at Princeton, has drawn attacks from the left for his criticism of NATO. In a viral Twitter post from July with almost 6 million views, West wrote that the U.S. was risking World War III by using NATO to expand American influence, especially on Russia's border.
"Let us not be deceived: NATO is an expanding instrument of U.S. global power that provoked Russia into a criminal invasion and occupation of Ukraine. This proxy war between the American Empire and the Russian Federation could lead to World War III."
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West agreed with Cooper that Russia’s invasion of Ukraine was "criminal," but clarified that he was calling for a cease-fire between the Russians and the Ukrainians.
"I’m not denying it’s a criminal invasion," West told Cooper. "I’m calling for cease-fire."
The CNN anchor responded that Russian President Vladimir Putin was too dangerous to leave unchecked, "You saw what [Putin] did to Grozny in the ’90s. I mean he flattened that city. Civilians were trapped in that city, the world didn’t come to the rescue of Grozny. He did exactly what he wanted to do. I mean, unchecked he will slaughter people."
"Unchecked, he will slaughter folks, unchecked, what we did in Iraq was slaughtering people," West said, adding that when nations are "wrong, you have to point it out."
Cooper followed up by appealing to his personal respect for West. "I respect you. You know, I love you, but I do think it’s inappropriate to compare the Russian bombing of Grozny and what we witnessed there with the war in Iraq."
"Half a million Iraqis killed, my brother. Half a million," West said back.
The CNN anchor continued to defend America's role in the Ukraine war.
"I certainly understand. I also saw a lot of Americans getting killed and I saw the horrors of Saddam Hussein. I’m just saying, I don’t think it’s accurate to compare the pummeling of a city by Russian artillery with civilians inside, pummeling every single day with the intention of just destroying and flattening a city, with actions the US took."
West again conceded that while the Ukrainians were being killed, the context of NATO expansion was critical to understanding the war.
"There’s no doubt that Ukrainian people are being treated in a barbaric way, [in] a murderous way. There’s no doubt about that. But the context is one in which that did not have to be if the expansion of NATO — and NATO is an arm of the American global power network. That is just a fact."
